Past, Present and Future

PCH VIPER · March 21, 2011, 03:31:07 PM

Whether you own a Gen 1, 2, 3, or 4, the heritage and history of the Dodge Viper is something that we, as owner's, take pride in, have passion for and enjoy being a part of. The Viper Club of America has come a long way since its inception. People have come and gone, some have been in it since day one and others have returned after a short time away from the Viper. It is the only car club in the world that has direct ties and endorsement from the manufacturer itself. This relationship is as unique as the car it represents.

As Dodge makes its way through big changes and we all wait for the Gen 5 Viper to make it's formal introduction, there are many changes that the Viper Club of America is also going through. As I reported from the President's Meeting in Arizona, the VCA Officers have been working very hard to ensure that our Club will survive without the funding that came from Dodge in prior years. Specifically, Dodge paid JR Thompson to manage the VCA. All monies, events, publications (with the exception of the VCA Notes), membership, raffles, etc, were handled and managed by JR Thompson. Last October, JR Thompson gave the VCA notice that they were no longer going to manage the VCA. The VCA Officers have put in untold hours to make a seamless transition to become a self sustained Club. What does that mean? In essence, we as members, will control our own destiny as a Club. Keep in mind that the VCA Officers and board members are Viper owners just like the rest of us. They have stepped up to the plate to take on those duties and responsibilities and I applaud them for their dedication. The VCA was in the midst of a very complicated time and many operating procedures had to be put in place in order for the Club to manage itself. The Board of Directors put forth the recommendation to have the current VCA Officers stay on for another term. The reason for this is very clear, the current VCA Officers had an extensive working knowledge of the changes that were upon the Club and a change in Administration would hinder the progress that was already under way to complete the transition. ( I can attest to this at a local level. We are 3 months into my term and I am still not up to speed with our own region. Can you imagine trying to carry through with something at the National level without all the working knowledge needed ?) Some people viewed this as a "power play" to take control of our Club by a select few. I do not believe this by any means.

The future of our Club is very bright and the changes that we were forced to face, self management and financial independence, are in place and moving forward. Is the Club perfect, no, but with the input of its members channeling through the Regional Presidents on up through the National Officers, we have a Club that is alive, adapting and growing. As your Regional President, I can tell you in no uncertain terms, that our National Officers are looking out for us, the members, and the preservation of the Viper Club of America. They are determined to provide a Club that enhances Viper ownership.

I am happy to report that almost 200 of us in the Southern California Region have joined or renewed so far this year. If you have not yet joined or renewed, I encourage you to do so. For the first time that I know of, the Members are being given the opportunity to vote on the bylaws that govern our National Club. Let's support our Club.
We are all part of this Viper.... Past, Present and Future

Baxters · March 22, 2011, 01:08:41 PM

Well said Lance <1

NK BREKR · March 22, 2011, 01:39:46 PM

x2 And thanks for the countless hours you have given and continue to give to make this the best region in all of the VCA! >s

Kala · March 24, 2011, 08:04:29 AM

Thanks for everything you do Lance... Sorry to take up your time with this... Please understand my post here has nothing to do with the best region in the VCA.

I love So Cal Viper and will do anything I can to help my club...

but...

I got questions about the National BS that is going on...

National will not allow an open forum to discuss the changes. You go to the super members only, top secret post section with your question and someone will get back to you. <19

In a private forum so no other members can see what your question was, or what the answers were! IF this is a democratic process and the bylaws are not a bad thing... WHY is it being handled like this? Lee told me in a PM in the TSF that it's so we don't have some of the members going off... So what if they go off... We know who they are and pass over their posts all the time!

My questions are also based on the recommendation/Letter that the Motor City Viper Club put out to their members. Their Officers were so unhappy with the new bylaws they suggested their members vote "No" for the new bylaws... They were so unhappy they even suggested that they would consider leaving the VCA all together. Which I believe someone said would mean no more raffles for the VCA. If you have not seen this letter I would be willing to forward it to you or post it here if you want me to.

I raise my questions here because I am really irritated with National... The secrecy, the treatment of members, treatment of vendors... I have no personal beef with Chris/Mary/Marv or any of the other Officers. To me it stinks that we (members) are being treated like this. Have an open conversation if this isn't a hot steaming pile we're about to step in... Why would VCA members have to go to other forums (Alley, the Garage etc) to talk to each other about this? That stinks!

This is/was the best car club I've ever seen. I'd really hate to have it slip down the tubes...

Please clear this up for me. I have not voted yet... I want to feel good about the future and right now...

I gotta tell ya...

I'm not comfortable...

PCH VIPER · March 24, 2011, 12:33:05 PM

Hi Kala,
Good questions and I understand your concerns. Quite honestly, it shows that you really do care about the Future of our club. One of the reasons I wrote and posted this in the Forum was to allow our members to respond and ask questions if they had any.

I'll keep this relatively simple and answer your questions as best I can in red

National will not allow an open forum to discuss the changes. You go to the super members only, top secret post section with your question and someone will get back to you. <19
In a private forum so no other members can see what your question was, or what the answers were! IF this is a democratic process and the bylaws are not a bad thing... WHY is it being handled like this?
The VCA did open a special forum area in the Members Only section. It was open for posting for a short while for all to see. (Please keep in mind that there are only a small handfull of people that Administer the VCA website and all of which have full time jobs along with the full time volunteer job of moderating the website.) The special forum was put in place to specifically address Bylaw questions. Shortly after opening the forum it became apparent that a handful of folks were posing relentless questions, trying to stir the pot and making unwarranted attacks. The Board decided to make the special forum "invisible" for a couple of reasons: There was a fear that some of the inflammatory comments being made would incite a dogpile mob and to keep from having irrelevant and repetitive questions from having to be continually addressed. Again, the Board members and moderators are very busy tending to a ton of different club related issues. They did not have the time to answer every post as they came in and if the question was left unattended for any period of time, they were worried that there would be an escalation of reckless assumptions.

By making the forum invisible, the Board could address the question and post an answer for all to see and essentially eliminate the mob dogpile. In hindsight, the board realized that it may not have been the best solution since it gave the appearance of "secrecy and deception".
Here is a link to the Q&A thread. http://forums.viperclub.org/vca-members-only/643820-vca-bylaw-thread.html

Lee told me in a PM in the TSF that it's so we don't have some of the members going off... So what if they go off... We know who they are and pass over their posts all the time!
Some of us spend way more time on the Forums than others (KALA )and while you and I may know who is for real and who is full of it, others may not and they make take that person's opinion as factual without taking the time to validate it

My questions are also based on the recommendation/Letter that the Motor City Viper Club put out to their members. Their Officers were so unhappy with the new bylaws they suggested their members vote "No" for the new bylaws... They were so unhappy they even suggested that they would consider leaving the VCA all together. Which I believe someone said would mean no more raffles for the VCA. If you have not seen this letter I would be willing to forward it to you or post it here if you want me to.
I have seen it and also received phone calls from them. The issues again were addressed in the 3 hour phone call on Sunday evening by all the Regional Presidents, Board of Directors and National Officers. The final outcome was that ALL Presidents that were on the call agreed unanimously that the Bylaws were to be approved. Furthermore, the Board and National Officers adopted a ruling which gave all members the right to voice their thoughts on any bylaw in a special forum and thus give every member a voice in the matter.

I raise my questions here because I am really irritated with National... The secrecy, the treatment of members, treatment of vendors... I have no personal beef with Chris/Mary/Marv or any of the other Officers. To me it stinks that we (members) are being treated like this. Have an open conversation if this isn't a hot steaming pile we're about to step in... Why would VCA members have to go to other forums (Alley, the Garage etc) to talk to each other about this? That stinks!
Have you read the bylaws (old) and Proposed bylaws which we are voting on? If so, what specifically is in the Proposed bylaws that is making you uncomfortable?

Or is this really more an issue of "how" the entire matter was handled? If it is the latter, then I offer this up. I first learned of the Proposed Bylaw re-write at the Presidents meeting in SLC. As a member and a future represntative of the club, I did not offer to help in any way. I do not know of any member or Regional President that did. Mr. Bob Carrol would have loved the help, but none was offered. It was no secret that they were being redone, and yet there is a small handful of people that incite rumors of secret agendas and conspiracies.

This is/was the best car club I've ever seen. I'd really hate to have it slip down the tubes...
I agree 100% that it IS and also do not believe that it is slipping down any tube. We are lucky to have such passionate and intelligent people running the National for us.

Please clear this up for me. I have not voted yet... I want to feel good about the future and right now...

I gotta tell ya...

I'm not comfortable...
I obviously can't tell you or anyone how to vote. That is for you to do. I only hope that you exercise your right to vote and understand what it is you are voting for. Much of what the uproar is about is not about the bylaws themselves, but more about the perception of how they were handled.

It is easy to throw big rocks when you have expended little energy along the way.

Kala · March 24, 2011, 02:56:05 PM

<A <A I am so sorry to be taking up your time with this Lance... If it wasn't uber important to me to get this right, I wouldn't be bothering you at all.

This type of communication is what is needed. Questions need to be asked and be answered in the open. I agree that the bylaws needed a rewrite, especially with the funding from Dodge being pulled. This will be the first set of Bylaws that are for the club by the club.

snip of new bylaws
National Officer election section expanded to now allow nomination eligibility for National Officer positions for specially experienced and qualified former National Board members and Region Presidents who have each served as either a member of the Board of Directors or as a Region President for at least six (6) years (that is, 3 two year terms) within the previous ten (10) years; term limits unchanged except that revisions now allow the Board of Directors, by at least a two thirds vote, to waive the consecutive term limit on National President.

Removal of Term Limits for the National President... Maybe I just don't understand, but shouldn't this be open and not just something that a small group of National Board of Directors can decide?

Also the qualification level is steep. How many qualified applicants can we possibly have that Service level? Would the Baxters qualify? Dan and Kathy qualify. Who else? What if someone who previously held office, retired from their business or whatever.. then wanted to hold National Office? If the time frame doesn't match up then they may not be able to hold National Office. Why rule out anyone based on how long ago their service was? To me if they served that is good enough.

Section 7 – Executive Director – This section is added to describe the duties of this newly created position. The Executive Director (ED) shall be the supervisor of the daily operations of the National Business Office. The National Board shall authorize the National Officers to negotiate a contract for the ED and management services with a qualified individual or entity. The ED position shall be a compensated position with a maximum amount and specific commencement date and term (not to exceed two years per contract) to be determined by the National Board upon recommendation by the National Officers.
First off, I have no problems with Mary... I have no problems with Mary being paid for doing the job we used to pay Fiona to do. Currently the new ED (Mary) lives with the current VP (Chris) with the new bylaws they can sign checks up to $10k. To me it should be two BoD members that sign checks period. Mary & Chris could make agreements without any notification on the BoD as long as they stay under the $10k ceiling. Again I have no problems with Mary or Chris personally. This is not just about now, its also about the unforeseen future. I am not trying to stir the pot. It's just a reality check. Is this a wise choice to make?

Section 8 – Operations Manual
The manual of procedures for the logistics and operations of the club. The manual may be amended at any time by a majority vote of the National Board in its sole discretion.

New wording doesn't require that the membership have any input.

Article II Section 2 regarding the regional membership. If a member doesn't specifically state region on application the national business office will decide the zone or region member belongs to.

I am far north for the So Cal region. If I want to be a member of the So Cal region I should be able to do that. Not someone who is far away from here deciding I should be part of the Central Coast region or N Cal region.

Section 3 Membership Discipline, Suspension or Expulsion from Membership – New wording added at the end of section a); member has engaged in a pattern of two (2) or more incidents of misconduct that has had an identifiable negative impact upon the VCA's operations, or reputation including, but not limited to, false or disparaging public attacks on VCA leadership personnel.

Under the current climate with the National VCA forum, this seems like censorship. Could this post where I am asking questions be considered my first strike? Who knows how far this will go when we can't even talk about the new proposed bylaws on the Nat Forum

Most of the new changes are about transferring the power from the members to the National board.

This is a car club. We should have fun with cars. I've always said you come for the car you stay for the friends. I'd like to see that go forward.

Here are some things that are troublesome to me. These things are not Bylaws but they are related to the VCA since the same people crafted the new bylaws have had a hand in the below issues. Their handling of members and vendors along with the secret forums and deleted posts that are probably what is causing the uproar amongst current members.

The VPoA and possible competition with paid vendors.

Vendors pay to advertise on the National forum. It used to be easy for vendors to jump into a thread and offer parts and or service. Now that has been taken away. Vendors are only allowed to "help" a viper owner if they post into another special forum. That forum isn't even clearly named. "Whatcha need for your Snake" Does not sound like a place for a professional vendor to hang out waiting for some Viper owner to wander in... I tried to say something in a thread on this and was almost immediately tossed into the JonB minions pile and ignored. I've bought a total of 2 parts from JonB I am not his minion. ^10

http://forums.viperclub.org/board-site-questions-suggestions/641940-forum-needs-new-name.html

Tuners are leaving too! It's not just JonB, The Wizard doesn't post anymore. Viper Specialty withdrew his sponsorship because of the way he was treated. The VCA needs to play nice with all of these guys. Trust me, if all the vendors go away and stop making parts for our cars its not a good thing. I went through it with Prowler parts. Try to get a Prowler grill made.

Here's a post from Dan Lassiters website. http://viperspecialtyperformance.com/News.asp
January 2011:

Hello Fellow Viper Owners and ViperClub.org members, I just wanted to post a quick note: in case anyone has noticed that we are not listed as Vendors on the VCA website at this time, that is correct. In short, the VCA website made a vendor rule change back in July that restricts its paying vendors from having contact information on their posts, or linking directly to their website. Well, we view this as counterproductive, and going against the whole point of a sponsorship. Having site analytics enabled, we witnessed a near total drop-off of traffic from the VCA website. At this time, we see no point in continuing to flush sponsorship advertisement fees down the drain, when it could be used to sponsor other websites, events, or raffles which we may see a real benefit from. Feel free to respectfully voice your opinion on the VCA website- but we don't think they are listening any longer.

That is sad. This was a paying vendor who I usually found helpful. He won't be posting like he used to.

I too have felt the sting from the National VCA. I thought it would be fun to have another run at the 'Ring with a 2010 ACR. As a viper owner experience... It was actually two fun threads. It started out on the open forum, I took it inside to a protected forum to discuss it with Herb.

http://forums.viperclub.org/grail-trail/640603-nurburgring-record-cost.html

Instead of having fun with it, I was told I had better run the idea by National because what I was proposing was a slap in the face of Dodge! & the VCA! I was shocked, everything was upfront any $ collected would be donated to the National VCA if we couldn't do the run @ the 'Ring. What could they have to lose?

I'm sorry this post is so long. If I didn't have to go to the Alley or the Garage or have private emails to discuss the changes I probably wouldn't be asking this stuff right now.

PCH VIPER · March 24, 2011, 09:32:00 PM

It is 9:20pm and I just got home from another long day.

I have an easy response for you Kala..... YOU ARE BANNED !

>w JUST KIDDING ! =14

As much as I would love to sit here and give you a detailed response as these are great questions and they are issues that SHOULD be addressed.....I'd much rather (and really need to) go out in the garage and finish prepping my car for Viper Days so I can leave tomorrow evening.

So as soon as I'm done with that I'll get an answer posted for you.

Kala · March 24, 2011, 10:45:23 PM

Quote from: PCH VIPER on March 24, 2011, 09:32:00 PM
YOU ARE BANNED !

You were my first Ban' er Lance! >r

Take your time, enjoy Viper Days <2

Here's to everyone coming home safely ^2

PCH VIPER · March 25, 2011, 01:06:20 PM

OK, here is my stab at this, since it is apparent that I can't get you thrown off our website <11

National Officer election section expanded to now allow nomination eligibility for National Officer positions for specially experienced and qualified former National Board members and Region Presidents who have each served as either a member of the Board of Directors or as a Region President for at least six (6) years (that is, 3 two year terms) within the previous ten (10) years; term limits unchanged except that revisions now allow the Board of Directors, by at least a two thirds vote, to waive the consecutive term limit on National President.
First off, this bylaw in its original form was actually MORE restrictive. These people were not eligible under the old bylaw. The new bylaw broadens the pool of people that would be eligible to run for National Office positions. This is definitely a good thing. It gives us a larger possible spectrum of qualified individuals from which to choose from.

Removal of Term Limits for the National President... Maybe I just don't understand, but shouldn't this be open and not just something that a small group of National Board of Directors can decide? 75% vote by Board of Directors Regional officers don't get a vote National board makes the answer
As for the right to waive the consecutive term limit for the National President, this again is less restrictive than the old bylaws. Under the old bylaws the National President could not run consecutive terms.
The proposed bylaws simply give the Board members the "option" to waive the consecutive term limit. Yes only the Board of Directors has the power by 2/3 vote to make this happen.
Let's keep in mind that the board or directors are not voting based on their individual wants/desires. They are the assigned representatives for the members. Members desires/opinions are flowed up to their Regional President, which are then flowed through the Zone Director, then the DAL. The Board of Directors act on our behalf. While the Regional Presidents may not get an actual vote, we certainly do have an influence. Quite honestly, with all the grief that they must be taking right now, I don't see any National President ever wanting to do a second term.

Also the qualification level is steep. How many qualified applicants can we possibly have that Service level? Would the Baxters qualify? Dan and Kathy qualify. Who else?
Yes the qualification level is steep, but under the proposed bylaw, it opens the door so that more people could qualify for the National Office. If Dan came back and took over the SoCal Club as President at the end of 2012 when my term ends, he would meet the eligibility rules under the proposed bylaws. (He would have 6 years of service within 10 years.) Under the old bylaws, he would not even be considered. I don't understand how this could be construed as a negative. The old bylaws were extremely steep and restrictive. The proposed bylaw in essence is designed to give good people who have put in years of service and have the qualifications the ability to move up.

What if someone who previously held office, retired from their business or whatever.. then wanted to hold National Office? If the time frame doesn't match up then they may not be able to hold National Office. Why rule out anyone based on how long ago their service was? To me if they served that is good enough.
In any organization, you would have to set some guidelines and limits for the qualifications. In 20 years when I retire, I'm happy to know that you would vote for me as National President. But the reality is that if I were to try and fill that position 2o years from now, based on my experience today, I would be severely outdated and my experience would be irrelevant to the current issues.

Section 7 – Executive Director – This section is added to describe the duties of this newly created position The Executive Director (ED) shall be the supervisor of the daily operations of the National Business Office. The National Board shall authorize the National Officers to negotiate a contract for the ED and management services with a qualified individual or entity. The ED position shall be a compensated position with a maximum amount and specific commencement date and term (not to exceed two years per contract) to be determined by the National Board upon recommendation by the National Officers.
First off, I have no problems with Mary...I'm glad to hear that. She has done an incredible job and her attention to detail along with her passion and efficiency of getting things done is something we all should commend her for.
I have no problems with Mary being paid for doing the job we used to pay Fiona to do. Currently the new ED (Mary) lives with the current VP (Chris) with the new bylaws they can sign checks up to $10k. To me it should be two BoD members that sign checks period. Mary & Chris could make agreements without any notification on the BoD as long as they stay under the $10k ceiling. Again I have no problems with Mary or Chris personally. This is not just about now, its also about the unforeseen future. I am not trying to stir the pot. It's just a reality check. Is this a wise choice to make?
First to be PERFECTLY clear, for anyone who may not know, the Executive Director position is NOT a new position. It has always been in the bylaws and was held by JR Thompson.
The VCA has only one checkbook. It is in the hands of our National Treasurer, Mr. Lee Stubberfield. Every check written, whether it is for $5.00 or $10,000, requires 2 signatures and those signatures are that of our National Treasurer and the ED.
If you look at the history of the VCA, all checks have been signed by the National Treasurer and the ED (JR Thompson). Also keep in mind that accounting for the National Club is open for the Board and the Regional Presidents to review. There are a number of checks and balances in place to keep them honest.

As a complete side note: Look at out own local club. Dan was President, Cathy was our Secretary (in essence our ED). They live together and had 100% control of our club checkbook, decisions of how and where it was spent, etc etc. Two signatures are not even required. But they are accountable for every penny.

Section 8 – Operations Manual
The manual of procedures for the logistics and operations of the club. The manual may be amended at any time by a majority vote of the National Board in its sole discretion.

New wording doesn't require that the membership have any input.
That is correct. We didn't have it under the old bylaws and we don't get it under the proposed bylaws. There is no change to this policy.

Article II Section 2 regarding the regional membership. If a member doesn't specifically state region on application the national business office will decide the zone or region member belongs to.

I am far north for the So Cal region. If I want to be a member of the So Cal region I should be able to do that. Not someone who is far away from here deciding I should be part of the Central Coast region or N Cal region.
The old bylaw specified that you were to be assigned by Zip Code. The proposed bylaw now allows you to do this. As a paid club Member, you have the right to choose another region outside of your geographical area. EVERY Member has that right. All you have to do is check off the little box by the region that you want. (May I suggest Nevada Region for you? >w )
Only in the event that a member does not specify on their application which region they want to be in, National assigns them to a region closest to their geographical location. This is a good thing. I'd be upset if National had the ability to take a non specifying member and assign him to a region that was in dire need of members, regardless of where they lived. National looks at the applicant's zip code and uses that to determine which region is closest to them

Section 3 Membership Discipline, Suspension or Expulsion from Membership – New wording added at the end of section a); member has engaged in a pattern of two (2) or more incidents of misconduct that has had an identifiable negative impact upon the VCA's operations, or reputation including, but not limited to, false or disparaging public attacks on VCA leadership personnel.

Under the current climate with the National VCA forum, this seems like censorship. Could this post where I am asking questions be considered my first strike? Who knows how far this will go when we can't even talk about the new proposed bylaws on the Nat Forum
Yes you are now BANNED!
Oh wait, under the proposed bylaw, you are entitled a second chance (which was not the case under the old bylaw.)

I guess to be clear these are two items. Under the proposed bylaw, a member is allowed 2 acts of misconduct. Misconduct is a specific act.
This is not a censorship issue. There are obviously rules of conduct (moral, ethical or otherwise) which do require censorship. (We do it on our own local site.) Talking about the proposed bylaws is NOT censored.
They are being individually answered and posted in the thread that I posted earlier and for which I think I already addressed.

Most of the new changes are about transferring the power from the members to the National board.
I think it is the opposite, the bylaws are now broadened and less restrictive than before. The members are now being given a voice to address concerns about the bylaws, not just now but in the future as well. See the email that I sent out on 3/21/11.

This is a car club. We should have fun with cars. I've always said you come for the car you stay for the friends. I'd like to see that go forward.
The guys at the top are doing everything they can to ensure that we have a Club period. Remember, we no longer have direct funding from Dodge. Our Club's existence is dependent on our membership and participation. They are working their asses off for us.

Here are some things that are troublesome to me. These things are not Bylaws but they are related to the VCA since the same people crafted the new bylaws have had a hand in the below issues. Their handling of members and vendors along with the secret forums and deleted posts that are probably what is causing the uproar amongst current members.
I am aware of the issues. It is very hard to draw the line between the two. Emotions can run high for some given what is at stake. I do not blame them at all. But let's not lose sight of the issue. The proposed bylaws as a stand alone document are out there for us to view and vote upon. Are they perfect? Probably not. Are they set in stone, definitely not. Will they continue to evolve and change, they have to as times and circumstances warrant. Case in point, the old bylaws were so specific that we cannot move forward as a club because of the wording. Personal emotions and feelings about the VCA, in my opinion, is not a valid argument for or against the specific proposed bylaws.

The VPoA and possible competition with paid vendors.

Vendors pay to advertise on the National forum. It used to be easy for vendors to jump into a thread and offer parts and or service. Now that has been taken away. Vendors are only allowed to "help" a viper owner if they post into another special forum. That forum isn't even clearly named. "Whatcha need for your Snake" Does not sound like a place for a professional vendor to hang out waiting for some Viper owner to wander in... I tried to say something in a thread on this and was almost immediately tossed into the JonB minions pile and ignored. I've bought a total of 2 parts from JonB I am not his minion.

http://forums.viperclub.org/board-site-questions-suggestions/641940-forum-needs-new-name.html

Tuners are leaving too! It's not just JonB, The Wizard doesn't post anymore. Viper Specialty withdrew his sponsorship because of the way he was treated. The VCA needs to play nice with all of these guys. Trust me, if all the vendors go away and stop making parts for our cars its not a good thing. I went through it with Prowler parts. Try to get a Prowler grill made.

Here's a post from Dan Lassiters website. http://viperspecialtyperformance.com/News.asp
January 2011:

Hello Fellow Viper Owners and ViperClub.org members, I just wanted to post a quick note: in case anyone has noticed that we are not listed as Vendors on the VCA website at this time, that is correct. In short, the VCA website made a vendor rule change back in July that restricts its paying vendors from having contact information on their posts, or linking directly to their website. Well, we view this as counterproductive, and going against the whole point of a sponsorship. Having site analytics enabled, we witnessed a near total drop-off of traffic from the VCA website. At this time, we see no point in continuing to flush sponsorship advertisement fees down the drain, when it could be used to sponsor other websites, events, or raffles which we may see a real benefit from. Feel free to respectfully voice your opinion on the VCA website- but we don't think they are listening any longer.

That is sad. This was a paying vendor who I usually found helpful. He won't be posting like he used to.

Okay....so this is obviously a very delicate situation for me to have to express my comments on. Keep in mind that I am new to the job, am not in a position to administer the policies on the VCA website, nor do I wish to get in the middle of a very sticky situation.
I am only answering this because you took the time to spell it out in black and white, and all that read this deserve some sort of an answer.
I'll also preface this by saying that this is purely MY OWN observation of the situation and is not to be construed as anything other than that.

1: Viper Parts of America. (my short version observation) With Dodge filing bankruptcy and no longer funding the VCA with dollars, this in a nutshell, was a way for Dodge to give the VCA indirect funding. The parts were destined for the trash bin. Yes they could have been sold to a private company for pennies on the dollar and then resold to us, the owner's, making a nice profit for the private company. Instead, the VCA was able to convince Dodge that giving the legacy parts and tooling to the VCA would serve the entire club as a whole and give the VCA the much needed financial stability to stand on its own. The VCA (a non-profit organization) created the VPA as a means to sell parts for profit. In essence, we as members are part owners in the VPA and as such we receive benefit from it. No, you and I are not getting a royalty check every month, but when you consider how much money the VPA can and has donated to the VCA for events like VOI-11 and items for local club auctions, I'd say we are getting pretty direct benefits. The VPA is also a Mopar Parts distributor...I believe the only one outside of a Dodge Dealership to be able to sell genuine MOPAR parts.

Downside is that it has the appearance to be in direct competition with our very own sponsors. Rather than beating around the bush, l'll be direct. JonB is not happy, nor are a handful of our other very good friends and sponsors. I surely do not blame them. I have had the pleasure of receiving phone calls from them and I'm not being sarcastic, they were very pleasant, open conversations. I understand their position, what went on behind the scenes and what is at stake. It is a very difficult situation and we are all walking on eggs with this one. There is no definitive right answer. We can't survive without the knowledge and advice of our vendors. At the same time, our club as a whole has been handed the golden egg. Where is the happy median or is there one?

2: Whatcha need for your snake? Not sure how to tackle this one. I read the post. From a typical persons standpoint, not sure how important a simple title is that key. From a search engine standpoint, it makes sense. Why it hasn't been addressed, maybe it is low on the priority list and will get done in the near future .

To address the posting policies on the VCA for vendors....another tough one. Again, my own viewpoint and probably off base. (to qualify my viewpoint: I have a Business and Economics degree from UCI, an engineer by practice, business owner for 24 years and have a current full time job of answering your posts >1 ) I'll regress to our own site as it will make it much simpler and easier for me to show you why / how I come to these conclusions. www.socalviper.com We have a handful of paid advertisers. Money, we as a club need and greatly appreciate from our sponsors. Our dear friend, Big Brake Dave, was also a sponsor and lived on our forum. He answered a lot of questions, gave lots of advice, was extremely helpful to all and was able to corner the market on our site for his very cool parts. He had unrestricted rights to do as he wanted to advertise and sell. Scott Hirko, has Speedtactics, and also has some specialty viper parts. With a much smaller budget, not as well known as BBD, and nowhere near the visibility that Dave had, was not able to compete with him. Thus the reason we received no advertising dollar from Speedtactics. I certainly don't blame Scott for not advertising with us and I would feel bad if I sold him advertising space and he was not able to sell a single item. By the same token, Dave would not have been very happy if I took his advertising dollar and then allowed Scott to "advertise" by posting like crazy and promoting his parts without paying a dime to be a sponsor. SoCalViper.com wants to make itself accessible for all vendors and attract as many sponsors as possible.

There are creative ways around every rule and still be within the lines. Scott could have been resourceful, started posting tips, and how to's, things of interest and by doing so would have gained a lot of visibility and respect within the community. He would have inadvertently promoted himself through "qualification and merit" as opposed to just paying for a little banner. By not posting or being visible, he gains absolutely nothing and has only worsened the situation.

I too have felt the sting from the National VCA. I thought it would be fun to have another run at the 'Ring with a 2010 ACR. As a viper owner experience... It was actually two fun threads. It started out on the open forum, I took it inside to a protected forum to discuss it with Herb.

http://forums.viperclub.org/grail-trail/640603-nurburgring-record-cost.html

Instead of having fun with it, I was told I had better run the idea by National because what I was proposing was a slap in the face of Dodge! & the VCA! I was shocked, everything was upfront any $ collected would be donated to the National VCA if we couldn't do the run @ the 'Ring. What could they have to lose?
Thank you for the link. I read thru it and don't see any faults with your comments, the VCA's or Dodge. Maybe I'm missing something. But doesn't it make more sense to wait for the new car next year and see what it offers? Maybe it will be lighter with more horsepower and better aerodynamics. Surely Dodge will want to showcase it at Nurburgring, so I have to agree that having owners donate tens of thousands of dollars to a private effort that stands only for a few months (if it succeeds at all - there are a lot of factors that could doom it) seems risky at best. I don't see what the concern is, but really appreciate your enthusiasm and desire to see the Viper stay on top. We all do!

Now go wash your Hummer >l

Kala · March 25, 2011, 07:42:38 PM

Lance,

I want you to know how much I appreciate you and this daunting task that lies ahead of you. You won't get much more (wait... well maybe a little more) trouble from me...

I must also say I have also appreciated Dan & Kathy, Tony & Sherry as Presidents of our wonderful So Cal club... I barely know the Baxters but I'm sure in So Cal tradition they are awesome people & fine past Presidents too!

The length of my concerns was shocking to me when I looked over the length of it. I'm feeling a little better after reading that you are behind the new bylaw provisions. I never looked at it as comparing to the old bylaws, to me this was the clubs opportunity to make new bylaws not something shoved down their throats by MB.

If you are good with it... that is good enough for me. (if it doesn't work out so good... well... you know how those stories end)

Thanks for taking the time to clarify things, I do realize this has got to be an overwhelming experience for you. Again if this had been able to happen on the National forum I never would have come here looking for answers or doubting the National BoD.

Since I paid for membership before you could ban me... I will lead the Banned crusade with pride. I await my bejeweled crown >n

Now go show some sidewinders your the new boss in town, while I watch the minions wash my Hummer...

totus hail novus rex rgis of via <2

Speedtactics · April 04, 2011, 11:09:10 PM

Lance,
Wow I just had a chance to read all of this. There is so much here to discuss and comment on. However I would like to discuss the vendor situation that you mentioned here. I'm only writing this form my point of view as a small business owner and a VCA member. When I first joined the club and inquired about advertising on the forum I was shocked at the cost of being a sponsor or advertiser here on this site. My company speedtactics is a small company primarily focused on building motorcycle parts, however we do make a few viper parts. The cost to advertise was to high for me to ever hope to recoup it by selling my parts. Since I could not afford to be a sponsor I decided it was best to not try and post any advice or tips on the forum for fear of upsetting any current sponsor and being banned.
Which is what happened to me on the VCA site. My suggestion would be to have some sort of option for smaller vendors like me to do some sort of pay per sale sort of like a buy it now option were the forum would make percentage of the sale. Obviously there is a lot that would need to be figured out in order for this type of thing to work. Every business has to start somewere and if they have no options they will not grow.

One last note. While my knowledge of vipers grow everyday. I know Dave's knowledge far exceeded my own. I would never want to make any tips or suggestions that I don't have enough information about, and give any wrong information.
Hirk

Kala · April 05, 2011, 12:48:25 AM

Scott, My concerns for the health and happiness of this club are @ the National level. Our local So Cal club is awesome. >v I've never really got to get to know the Baxters, but I've really enjoyed the way our local club has been run since I've been here. Very friendly, very open, very helpful...

On the National forum, you couldn't have that e mail sig line with your company email. National vendors get a blue link in their sig and they are not allowed to say anything to a owners questions outside of that "what cha need for your snake" forum... As vendors and tuners lose web traffic and ultimately move to a another forum or brand where they can make a fair living... The real losers here will be Viper owners. VPoA shouldn't have to kick everyone to the curb to make it. They have a lot of parts... I think in the end they are shooting themselves in the foot. Piss off the vendors and tuners and now owners who is gonna buy?

So just to be clear I'm upset with National, not Local VCA. Something seems to be going on and its not pretty...

I wasn't allowed to vote. Who ever is in charge @ National made my e mail address something that I have not used for years. I have had at least 2 or 3 membership dues paid since I had that addy...

Then I get Help from some anonymous staff member who doesn't sign their name to these helpful emails! I get this response...

Kala -

Just remember that there are two totally separate databases - the forums and the membership. We assume you are having trouble with the membership portal which does not interface with the forums - so thread forwarding wouldn't apply here. Do you happen to recall an ojai.net email address?

Keep us posted,

The VCA Staff

Then after its too late to freaking vote I get this...

Kala -

Would you like us to change the email we have on file for you?

The VCA Staff

I'm so angry at how National is being run... <19

Just for anyones information, after Lance's explanation I was going to vote YES! but damned if I would now... I'm a member, I paid. I should get to vote. This is like the freaking hanging chad.

With the secret forums, anonymous emails, running off vendors... It's really hard to trust any of them. I'M NOT EVEN SURE WHO "THEM" IS YET! THEY won't sign their name!

Personally, I want to know who is ruining our sweet little club...